Shannon Courtney 0:05

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Student Voices: Around the World in 90 Minutes. I'm Shannon Courtney. I am a Burkle intern and the moderator for tonight's event. So this event is organized by the interns of the Burkle Center and as part of UCLA International Education Week. So we're really excited to have you guys all here. And today's discussion brings together UCLA undergraduate students and faculty to explore cultural exchange in higher education and the global workforce. And also, I was a 2021 Global Internship Program participants in Bogota, Colombia. So I'm really excited to participate in this discussion as well with some fellow familiar faces. So before we start, I would like to go over some housekeeping rules for the panel discussion. So we are first going to begin with some introductory remarks from all of our panelists, followed by conversation between our panelists and then a q&a section. So since this panel is all about student voices, we really want to hear your perspectives and for you to participate, so you can either submit questions that you have for each participant in the chat, or use the raise hand feature to be called on, then you'll unmute yourself and then be able to ask your question. So to note the event is being recorded, and that everyone is welcome to turn off their cameras if they don't want to be recorded. So I'm going to first begin by introducing our amazing panelists. So first, we have Justin Chen. He is a third year poli sci major and entrepreneurship minor at UCLA, and he's from Auckland, New Zealand, and Taipei, Taiwan. He has interned at PwC Legal, Eminent Venture Capital and LCS & Partners and hopes to specialize in mergers and acquisitions, private equity and cross border investments within corporate law internationally. Our next panelist is Wudia Kamara. She's a third year double majoring in economics and pre international development studies. She participated in the Global Internship Program this summer virtually, where she was a business development intern at Agilis Advisors, an advisory company in Berlin, Germany. We also have Adnan Shabib, who is a third year mathematics of computation and economics double major at UCLA. He attended international schools in Bahrain and Jordan and currently works within the International Student Representative Office and serves as the International Student Ambassador for Bahrain. We also have a special guest in the audience Natalia Garcia Tang, who's the USAC International Student Representative for the 2021 to 2022 academic year, and she's gonna be in the audience, engaging in questions providing resources and raising hand and joining the discussion when she feels that she would like to. For our faculty panelist, we have Professor Shalom Staub, who's the director of the UCLA Center for Community Learning. He's been involved in community engaged program development for over his 37 year professional career in all aspects: state government, the private non profit sector and higher education. And he also has developed and now teaches a course on intercultural communication for the globalized workplace as available to students who want to participate in the Global Internship Program. So we're gonna have Professor Staub, take it away with this introduction.

Shalom Staub 3:10

Thank you, Shannon, and delighted to be with everybody. I do feel though, that that, me being the first speaker on a panel of student voices. That's, that's just there's something wrong about that. So maybe the best thing for me to do is is take you all back to many years ago, actually, when I was a junior and senior in high school. This was like 1972 1973. One of the things that I thought about when choosing the university that I was interested in was, would it give me an opportunity to study abroad?. And that was a deciding factor. Now, at that time, my life plan was totally different. My life plan was to become a rabbi. And so I chose a university that had not only a good Jewish Studies program, but an opportunity that would allow me to study for a full year in Israel. So I get to college. And in one of my first semesters, I took an anthropology course, and boy, my head just got turned around. And within a year, I was like, I'm done with my plans to become a rabbi, I want to become an anthropologist. And what really got me was the way that anthropology gave me a language and a conceptual framework to understand my own experience. I mean, as an American Jew in in the 1960s, I felt like an outsider in this country. And it's an experience that a lot of ethnic minorities and racial minority individuals feel when you're not part of, when you don't experience yourself as part of the majority culture, and I didn't have a language for that, until I really got into the study of anthropology and the study of culture. And the study of culture is what took me into the exploration of intercultural communication. So that's kind of the connection that that led from my early student days to, to what became, you know, a kind of an academic and intellectual journey. For me, culture is a very dynamic concept. You know, unlike when you, if you were to travel right now, and look for, you're going to do an internship, you're going to, you're going to work abroad, and you say to yourself, how do I find out what I need to know? Well, the literature, the internet is full of resources like 10, things you need to know to do business in Japan. 10 things you need to know, to communicate in South Africa. Well, those approaches are based on some assumption that culture is some static, homogeneous thing. But it's not. As we know, from our own experiences, and being who we are in our own countries in places, there are many cultures and subcultures and competing cultures and contesting cultures and emerging cultures. And so trying to think about intercultural communication in this more dynamic context became really an interesting and challenging thing that I wanted to explore. And so over the course of my own studies, and as a undergrad and as a graduate student, and then working in different contexts, I was really keenly aware of how do you navigate across cultural differences? And how do you communicate effectively across cultural differences. And the tendency, well one tendency is to kind of say that they're not there. Like we all want to, we all want to be one we all want to get get along, we all. And then there's this erasure of cultural difference in the interest of say, of creating a kind of common humanity. But there's a danger in that because people want to be seen, people want to be recognized for who they are. And if you shut down and ignore the realities of people's experience, and you assume that you're communicating effectively, you're probably not communicating effectively, because you're not listening and you're not hearing and you may be communicating in ways that that are actually communicating in negative ways around issues of privilege, that shut people down from listening to you. So, you know, as I had the opportunity and taught in Japan, and created a joint US-Japanese student research team, to investigate issues of aging in our respective countries. As I design programs, later, immersive courses to bring students into places like Israel and Palestine to understand issues of conflict, and places like Morocco to understand the dynamics of a traditional and contemporary pull and push of a society. There were really interesting, exciting challenges to think about how to build programs that that could bridge differences. And for me, one of the critical issues in thinking about intercultural communication and intercultural communication competence, is to pay attention to a framework that that I think has four parts. It's includes developing people's motivation, the desire to want to bridge cultural differences, developing attitudes and dispositions to understand oneself and others in respectful and humble ways and developing a knowledge base of other cultures. Because there is so much to learn, and then developing skills to navigate, communicate skills, conflict resolution skills, really practical kinds of, of skills, and, and to take students on a journey as the journey that I, myself experienced, but also that I continually experience as a newcomer to LA since four years ago, you know, finding myself in entirely new contexts and entirely new cultural environments here compared to the East Coast. We all go through this of moving from what I might call unconscious incompetence, like you don't even know what you don't know, to conscious incompetence, like you're starting to learn that you really don't know what you don't know, to conscious competence, like you're really working to figure out okay, I'm in this context, there are different rules, there's, there are different values operating here, I'm, I'm really focusing and working on it. And ultimately, to unconscious competence, you know, the kind of fluency and by cultural understanding that one gains through repeated and, and really intentional efforts of crossing boundaries. So that's a little bit of a taste of how I approach it and how I've experienced it, and and how I encourage you as students to think about your own journeys. The fact is that international education is one of the highest impact educational experiences that anybody can have in their lives, no matter which direction you're traveling from the US abroad, abroad to the US, within the US in different international contexts. If education is about opening one's mind, then international education is opening one's mind on steroids, because whether you like it or not, you are confronting things that you know you don't know. And I hope, and my experience, it sparks a curiosity for learning. And it's the kind of curiosity for lifelong learning that I think is so critical, beyond your undergraduate degree and, and how it takes you through through really exploration through the rest of your life. I'm going to stop there, I hope that that is a, you know, kind of a good start to the conversation. And I can't wait to hear our student panelists.

Shannon Courtney 12:40

Thank you so much, Professor stuff for that profound introduction for our student panelists about intercultural communication. So now we're gonna pass it over to Justin Chen.

Justin Chen 12:50

Thank you, Professor. Hi, everyone. Thanks for coming. My name is Justin. And as Shannon said earlier, I'm from Aukland, New Zealand and Taipei, Taiwan. And I would consider myself a bit of a cosmopolitan because I spent the first 14 years of my life in Auckland, New Zealand and Parnell, Auckland. That's where I attended primary school. But then my parents because of work had to move to Taipei, Taiwan. So I lived in Taipei for the next four or five years as an expat. And there, that was my first experience of truly like an international environment because not only did I live in an expat area, but I also attended an international school representing some 30 nationalities. So, I would say, having that experience was definitely extremely helpful, accustomed to respecting cultural differences, being observant and also aware of cultural differences. Not only that, through high school and through undergrad I've had internships, both here in the US, and also in Taipei, Taiwan. So I've had the opportunity to intern at PwC's Taipei office, at PwC Legal as a corporate legal intern. I worked on mainly cross border investment cross listing regulations. So there I was really working with predominantly Taiwanese colleagues, but mostly western educated Taiwanese co workers. I was also frequently in contact with American attorneys. And after that, I interned at Eminent Venture Capital, which is a Taiwanese venture capital firm that primarily processes American and Canadian investment into Taiwanese tech startups. So there I was predominantly dealing with a North American or Western you know, set of people, you know. And after that I intern at LCS & Partners, which is Taiwan's second largest private equity, corporate m&a firm. And there I was predominantly dealing with cross border investment, cross border, like restructuring and private equity cases. So there I was also in frequent contact with just clients over in North America. So I would say, when I first came over to California to attend UCLA, I didn't experience much of a cultural shock, because English is my native language. So there wasn't a language barrier. And I would say, my four years of high school, international, but sort of in an American curriculum as well sort of prepared me for sort of cultural expectations here as well. But I do realize that due to a multitude of reasons, maybe language barriers, maybe, maybe a genuine cultural shock that a lot of international students find it hard to adjust to life in California, which is why me and two other friends, Frederick and Mitch, we started a student organization called Bruins Down Under, just as an organization for Australians and New Zealanders here at UCLA, who may find it hard at first to adjust to American life, we're there to provide support and sort of ease their transition into life here at UCLA. And, yeah, that would be all for my self introduction and Wudia, you're welcome to introduce yourself. Thank you.

Wudia Kamara 16:48

Hi, everyone, thank you so much for giving me a chance to be here. I'm excited to be here with you all. Onto a little bit about me, I was born in Rhode Island, but grew up in Sierra Leone and moved to California to finish high school and now LA, UCLA. So that kind of like sets up the tone for my intercultural experience based on like my personal background. But I want to talk more about this past summer, wherein I got the opportunity to intern as a business development intern at a advisory company in Berlin, Germany, participating in the Global Internship Program with Shannon as well. And I would say I honestly didn't know what to expect going into that internship, like given my little exposure to the field of investment and prior to, but I knew that I wanted to overall, like improve my intercultural communication skills, which I did. So my supervisor was my sole contacts throughout my internship and he lived in the Netherlands. So I was able to like learn from our cross cultural differences, and most importantly, in reaching out to like, many, like over 600 companies across like Africa, and Europe as well. And since I got to intern remotely, most of the cultural differences I recognized were based on communication styles. So one thing that my supervisor did mention to me briefly was like, hey, maybe when communicating with people from African startups or African business partners, you have to like look up for their titles, make sure you're calling people by Mr. And Mrs. So that kind of like took me like an additional steps, like going to people's bios on LinkedIn to make sure that I had the right titles for them. And then when communicating with like, firms from America, it would be like the first name, she was just like, honest, it was little things, which wasn't strange to me, because of my Sierra Leone background where people would prefer going by their titles instead of first names, but it's something that I have stopped doing ever since, like, I moved to California because like, no one says Mr. or Mrs. over here, you know what I mean? But just those little things, were just, um, that were things that stood out to me. And I would say that I didn't really have a cultural shock, because I went in with like an open mind ready to absorb as much multicultural information as I could, and without constantly using my Sierra Leone or American cultural norms as a basis for comparison. And I would say that, one thing that really helps was a resource. So the intercultural communication class, which was taught by Professor Staub, actually was a really good resource for navigating my cultural experience in that internship program, because it did equip me like with adequate tools for gaining intercultural competence and intercultural competence is the idea of like, acquiring a set of skills to be able to enact like effective and appropriate communication people from different cultural backgrounds. So, prior to the internship and prior to that class, and like most people on this call, who seek to work in global diverse settings, and travel the world, I used to think that reading a blog post online about quick guides to a specific country would be quite enough for me to personally and professionally thrive in that country. However, after taking the class I learned that one of the greatest impediment to intercultural communication learning is adopting limited modes of learning, like blogs online or standardized metrics of cultural behavior like the mayor's culture month, conflict style, inventories and like things like Hofstede's Value Orientation Model. And I came to understand that while these generalized guides are significant and can be useful, they're very limited and do not encompass the diversity of cultures. So, learning how to learn to adapt to various cultural communication, in any given setting is key to retaining intercultural competence which could be like the foundation for intercultural communication. So, that being said, I would say my whole summer experience kind of like taught me to know that, no ethnicity or culture is entirely homogeneous. And so, it is very important to have like a framework for understanding how people interact across various cultures, but do not do not participate in enabling ethnocentrism because by enhancing cultural stereotypes, because the problem with cultural stereotypes is in that they are like, on true or not factual, but it's that they're incomplete, like they do not tell the full story. And to like, kind of, like adhering to that can just like, block you or not enable you to like, learn as much as you could from an intercultural experience. So, but I'm happy to like, talk more about this as we go on. I can talk like, over and over, I can talk like, on and on and on about that class, it was really great opportunity to be in that. But yeah, I'll pass it on to Adnan.

Adnan Shabib 21:37

Thank you. Hello, everyone. My name is Adnan Shabib, third year here at UCLA studying computational mathematics and economics. I have lived in both Bahrain and Jordan prior to attending UCLA, and I've lived in both countries for around nine to 10 years. I'm currently working with the International Student Representative Office with Natalia as the Academic Affairs Director, and I'm also serving as International Student Ambassador for Bahrain. One of the biggest challenges that I encountered when moving from the Middle East to the United States was having to leave the community that I've grown in, since I was a child. For the last 18 years, basically. I was excited, like, don't get me wrong, I was very excited to come to UCLA, it was like a very big opportunity and such but not gonna lie, having to live halfway across the world from basically my life was very scary, and it was hard at the start, I'm not gonna lie to you guys. It was, I found the best way to like to deal with this kind of stuff was to make the effort to make new friends and to try and integrate yourself within the society. So I did that by joining different cultural clubs, and just basically struck up conversation with anyone I had come across. And then I found my own community within the broader UCLA community. And that would have been easy. It made it much easier for me to be happy and enjoy myself here in university. So as your culture shocks, I've had many, but I wouldn't necessarily call them big. So I'm going to call these my mini culture shocks. So for for one, I was I was living on the hill, I was, and I decided to call on Uber for the first time because my friends were down at Santa Monica, I wanted to go call them. I go join them. Sorry. So I called the Uber. And what do I do on the Uber comes, I go and sit in the front seat right next to him. So the Uber driver comes, looks at me a bit weird, like, not enough space in the back. So then we had like a very nice conversation about how different cultures and all that all that cultural differences, because back in Jordan, back in Bahrain, it would be seen as basically rude if you didn't come and sit up at the front. So yeah, that was definitely interesting. Another instance is lunch and dinner times. So my friend told me, Hey, you want to get dinner at 5pm? I was like, You mean lunch? He opened it. And a bunch of other nice things, like the way people dress out in public is different. When I was first heard the term, have a good one. Have a good one. Have a good one. Have a good day. Apparently, that's what it means. And also the fact that shops close very early here. I used to go shopping at 9pm Back home now. Everything's closed at 9pm. Also, in terms of education, I think one of the things that blew me away was the idea of participation being part of the grade on projects and certain assignments. Back home, our grades are basically fully calculated from a couple of exam scores. So it can basically, you end up waking up on the wrong side of the bed day if your exam goes you're gonna have to repeat next year. But here I took a class this one time where 50 or over 50 2% of the grade was based on participation. And that blew me away, like, unheard of, like, unheard of. And another thing that was very bizarre to me was the idea of general education requirements. Back home, in the final two years of high school, you should really be deciding what field you want to go in, you want to become a doctor, you should start taking your biology, your math, your chemistry classes, you will be an engineer math and physics, cetera, et cetera, for everything. But here, I was able to add on economics as my second major my third year here at UCLA, and only because of this general education requirements situation, and I've grown to appreciate I think it's a really cool thing. And UCLA has helped me has provided a lot of ways for me to navigate the cultural differences. One of the most important resources that I would love to emphasize is the dasher center, who they provide a multiple multitude of different events geared towards international students, like exploring la international food fair game nights, it really, these events really helped me like, understand different cultures and value, the importance of cultural exchange. And they also did a bunch of workshops, such as language circles, or spoke to strengthen your spoken English, and health and financial workshops. A couple my favorite workshops were the how to file taxes international students, because that's a doozy, and introductory American politics, because who doesn't like to learn about that? That I think that'll be all. Thank you guys for listening.

Shannon Courtney 26:37

Thank you, everyone, for your wonderful introductory remarks. And all, it's been really interesting to hear all the different cultural shocks you faced in the US, all your experiences and beyond abroad as well. So moving on to our general questions for discussion. Just a note to the audience, Professor Staub is leaving at six, because he is teaching in class, he is a busy professor at UCLA. And so I really wanted to first go more in depth about his teaching, experience intercultural communication, and then it's free to everyone in the panel to also to discuss this. So Professor Staub. My question for you, is that in your teaching experience, we talked about intercultural communication, so I was wndering, what are some of the greatest issues that you see students facing when navigating these cultural differences, especially in like international and multicultural settings? And they're dealing with differences with people that working directly.

Shalom Staub 27:31

Thanks, Shannon. It's a great question. And, and I'm not sure how to do it justice because the answers can be so varied. I mean, we've heard right on this panel, you know, the varied experiences of students moving from one cultural context to another even either, you know, even within a single country or across international borders. I think one of the biggest challenges overall is feeling overwhelmed. You know, when you are in a new cultural environment, and you don't really know the rules, and everything feels strange, I mean, the food, the food tastes strange and the sounds, the sound of the language, you know, just is strange, because you're not fluent in it. You're not accustomed to the rules, like as Adnan said, I mean, you expect to be able to go shopping at, you know, 10 o'clock, but, hey, the stores are closed. So things that are unfamiliar, and if it happens enough, you know, I think one of the challenges is, it just starts feeling overwhelming. And then and then there's the temptation to kind of, particularly today, you know, with easy access on the internet and zoom and everything, to just retreat back into cultural familiarity. And, and, and be on your phone and, and, and be connected, even when you're in an intercultural environment, but, but kind of, you know, kind of isolate yourself in your own cultural zone, and distance yourself from the cultural differences around you. I think that that's a natural reaction. It's part of the, you know, kind of an expected learning curve even. And, you know, if that's one of the challenges, then the, I think the issue is to remind yourself, why you embarked on this, you know, like, why did you travel to, you know, not just to eat McDonald's, you know, in another part of the world, but like to seek out new experiences. And so I always like to encourage students with whom I speak about these kinds of issues is to kind of put that first principle in the forefront of of one's mind, which is remind yourself why you're doing this, it's to expand your horizons not to, you know, stay in the comfort zone of familiar of cultural familiarity. And, and, you know, the other the other principle here is that learning should be uncomfortable. I mean, there's, there's a dimension of learning that if it's not making us uncomfortable, I'm not sure that we're learning. So recognizing that all learning, you know, whether it's studying chemistry, or you know, studying sociology, or studying architecture, there's a challenge in it, there's, you know, there's a dimension to it, that pushes us beyond what we already know. And it's the same thing for cultural learning. So, so I would stay focused, at least in my answer, Shannon, on this challenge of, of being overwhelmed the the initial desire to to retreat back into familiarity. And then the, the, the opportunity that it presents every one of us to expand our our horizons.

Shannon Courtney 31:24

Thank you for that response. I think that's actually a really good segue to ask them, the full panel of students, I'm going to the idea of like encountering the unknown and being comfortable with being uncomfortable in these, because as everyone here, even if you went abroad from the US to somewhere else, or came from somewhere else, to the US, you've probably encountered these moments where you would feel more comfortable being with your own group, your own cultural identity, and like the people who align with their cultural identity. So is there any experiences anyone wants to talk about of having either here or abroad in work experiences, or just academic experience of like having to confront the unknown, or being comfortable with being uncomfortable?

Wudia Kamara 32:21

I can I can touch on that, I would say, Ah, I think I start to think about it as about, like, I'm making the strange familiar. And so when I came to the US to complete my high school education, so I moved to high school in 11th, grade in Fontana, right. And having had like most of my primary and middle school education in Sierra Leone, there's like a huge difference. But in terms of like, how the educational system works, and coming here, it was just like, very bizarre to see like, oh, there are classes that you're supposed to take, you take all the same classes and different clubs, you take all the same classes and whatnot. And then you'd have like, different they're all various classes you have to take. And for me, I had always been have had like this structure, wherein I would only take business classes. Because those are the things that I was interested in. But high school here was completely different. So it was like, very much overwhelming. But at the same time, I found it a little bit more, I guess, manageable to do, because I had come from an educational system that was very much strict. And when I heard that, oh, you could retake a test in my geology class in high school, I was like, what, you could really take a test. I was like, then do I even have to study? Um, but it was just things about like, just things like that. I was like, Oh, my God, I'm impressed about it on par, like the American education system works in comparison to like the one I had. So I think just having those shifts was kind of good. But for me, it was just about being like, comfortable with being uncomfortable. Because if I hadn't done that, then I wouldn't be at UCLA right now. So I think it was just like a wild experience. But I think my education experience from early on, which was most like a British standard one, kind of like complimented the American one quite well, I would say.

Shannon Courtney 34:21

Thank you for the response. Justin, did you have your hand raised? Did you want to add anything about your experience?

Justin Chen 34:25

Yeah, so I was gonna elaborate on being comfortable with being uncomfortable. So as we kind of all know, I guess, within sort of like a Western upbringing, we're taught to be sort of confident, not necessarily like, overconfident or outspoken, but we're told to basically, be straight, be really straightforward with what we're capable of, and basically take credit where credit's due. And that's actually an interesting cultural difference in comparison to East Asia. You know, when I was interviewing for my job, LCS & partners, and even when I was working there, I wasn't quite sure how I was going to go about presenting certain ideas to my superiors, how I should maybe respond to their questions about, Oh, do you have relevant experience in the area? Or how, how good do you think you are, like questions that are sort of directed at my abilities, or sort of gauging my experience, I wasn't sure how confident I should come across. Because in East Asia, there's definitely this culture of humility, there's definitely this norm of, you shouldn't, even if you're capable, even if you know, you deserve credit, in certain situations, you should probably take a step back and maybe downplay yourself a little as a show of humility. So that's, that's an interesting phenomenon that I sort of personally observed.

Adnan Shabib 36:11

Yeah, and to add on to what's already been said, the experience of mine that was like, probably the turning point was actually the first time I came to the United States by myself. So I came for the first time when I was a freshman by myself to the dorms and everything. And that was such a definitely a very interesting experience. I was very nervous and everything I didn't know what was going on. There's a first time I was away from family from really from friends. But then after that whole, like after week one came and week two started like going going back into the getting into UCLA and accustomed to UCLA life, I, I realized that at the end of the day, it's, it's all going to be okay, like, we just have to be in the moment that may seem a bit daunting, whether it is to join a new club, whether it is to meet someone new, it's just at the end of the day, it's always going to be alright, I think that's the biggest key takeaway that I found from all this.

Shannon Courtney 37:12

Thank you guys, for all your responses that was really informative, and really interesting to hear how everyone had different experiences, like making the strange familiar and encountering the unknown. I wanted to bring up the concept of ethnocentrism at UCLA. Is there any ways that you guys have seen as students or even as faculty of just seeing it within the student body or with maybe, for example, the classes that are taught the availability of classes, even despite UCLA being kind of propelled as this diverse, inclusive institution, ways that you've seen like, preferential treatment to certain cultural understandings and upbringings and maybe like a lack of creating an environment where people can come together and talk about different cultural upbringings and some things like that? Anyone can start Professor, you can start already the students can start.

Shalom Staub 38:24

You know, as a professor, it's a hard question to answer, Shannon, because unlike students, I don't have the opportunity to shop around and take courses all over the university. So, you know, I'm really I lead a unit at the university that sponsors the Community Engagement and Social Change minor. It's an interdisciplinary minor, that focuses largely around community issues in Los Angeles, but students are also quite interested in doing community engagement work all around the country and all around the world. But because we're so community engagement focused, we really take it seriously to design our courses in ways that really recognize diversity and inclusion, both in terms of creating opportunities for students to work in diverse community settings, while being part of a course, but also trying to create inclusive classroom experiences for students from diverse backgrounds within the class. I don't know, based on your question, Shannon, it almost sounds like that you're suggesting maybe that's not very representative or that's not altogether representative across UCLA. I guess in my little corner of UCLA, that's specifically what we tried to do. I hope that others that students have experienced this, you know, where they feel included across across all of their courses. But let's hear

Shannon Courtney 40:15

well, everyone's thinking, I think I can also, as I mentioned, the very beginning, I actually was a global internship participant as well, for Bogota Columbia. And that was a really important, very transformative experience for me, especially because my career aspirations to go into foreign diplomacy. And so working with international community, international communities is really important. I think something that I've noticed I think other students can speak on in a second is, depending on your major, your minor or what different sector you're focusing on within UCLA, the opportunities to engage in different discourse around intercultural- not even intercultural communication, but international issues and events in general. And being able to understand different cultures really depends on what's available within your different programs at UCLA. Does any one of the student panelists want to say anything about that?

Adnan Shabib 41:14

I can, I can begin. So for I've had like, relatively, I don't think I've anything particularly bad to talk about in terms of culture, like culture, just the situations I've had being an international student at UCLA. But one thing that that came about during the COVID pandemic was I was back home in Jordan, throughout throughout fall quarter 2020. And I was taking this one class, which had the required examination at 2am Jordanian time, that was absolutely not fun. So me and a couple of my friends were also back in the well, Europe slash Middle East area, we decided to compose an email to the professor asking them Oh, is there any way we can either reschedule the exam or make up some other form of examination, because a 2 am exam did not seem like what we wanted to do. But thankfully, the professor was very, very kind to create a second time. So for the examination, instead of making it 2am, made at 2pm, the following day, and he ended up coming in proctoring us for the exam, like you have to stay up a bit and thankfully made the sacrifice to stay up slightly late. And we really did appreciate that, me and my friends in the class.

Shannon Courtney 42:37

Justin, do you want to add your feedback as well?

Justin Chen 42:40

Yeah, I would say from my personal experiences, UCLA has done a great job of being culturally mindful and inclusive, at least in terms of all the Poli sci upper divs I have taken. Some classes the underlying assumption is that everyone in the class is American. Obviously, we talk about electoral politics in the US or say like a classic American political thought. But some some of the other classes that I've taken, say, like a, say, a research seminar in comparative politics, obviously, we look at like governmental structures and democratic backsliding in different countries. So there, that sort of presupposition went away. So I suppose it varied from class to class for me, but I'd say overall, UCLA has done a pretty good job.

Wudia Kamara 43:33

To add on to that, um, like you mentioned, Shannon, I would say, for me, I have kind of like saw a lot of like, international inclusiveness because of the programs that I'm in. So for me, it's like something I chose to do. So I'm not quite sure how students outside of programs like IDS, specifically, international women's studies would feel about that. So because I'm international development studies, and I have econ i tend to take econ classes that are quite more on global issues as well. So for example, econ 111, that I'm taking right now is a theories of development class. So we have case studies that we're working on where people get to represent different countries, and talking about economic factors within those countries. And then from there, you see how people always try to do like their home countries or various developing countries, and you see how people have different backgrounds and you're like, Oh, my God, I'm in this space. We've got literally a lot of international students or people who have a lot of international experiences, but I'm not quite sure how that is, like integrated into like other classes at UCLA that are much more on the had like a niche and focus and like subject area, but I'd say outside of that, I think one thing that I have seen so far, because I'm a Resident Assistant and I do on my floor have like a lot of international students on my floor and one thing that's brought to concern about classes is like accessibility in terms of like, oh, like virtual options or being able to like go back home and be able to take these classes or having to stay here during like a pandemic, which is like, literally a bit more expensive in comparison to Staying at home. So it's all about those accessibility issues. But I would say, wanting to have that diversity of International Education. If it's something that you want for yourself, you can definitely acquire it, but I'm not sure how well it's integrated into like every other field of study at UCLA.

Shannon Courtney 45:19

Thank you guys for your commentary about that subject, I think it's really important to discuss and I think something interesting about UCLA, I do think UCLA is making a really great effort with, for example, International Education Week and all of its international programs, to include students from diverse backgrounds and diverse programs at UCLA, for example, I think UCLA is one of the only institutions that I know of that allows like engineering students, students that are in these really rigorous, tightly restricted education curriculums to like actually participate in a study abroad program. So I think UCLA, try do a good job of integrating everyone to develop intercultural communication and international competence. So a question I have for the students is, I wanted to maybe get your perspective or your involvement on, again, understanding of your involvement on campus. And so Are any of you guys in international, not International, but just leadership positions in cultural organizations to organizations on campus? And what was? What made you want to be participating in those cultural cultural organizations? At UCLA? Oh, Justin, you go first.

Justin Chen 46:27

Yeah, so I myself am a part of I'd say two student organizations that are geared towards international students? Well, one not really geared towards international students, but I founded Bruins Down Under, like I said, in my introduction with two of my friends, knowing that there currently isn't a student organization for students from Oceania. So I've had an opportunity to really meet people from the same part of the world. We resonate on a lot of issues regarding getting accustomed to life in the United States, and making that sort of transition. But I suppose for Australians and New Zealanders, due to the cultural proximity we have with just Americans in general, we tend not to have a problem adjusting to life here. But the other student organization that I'm in is TASA, Taiwanese, Taiwanese American Student Association. I joined that organization partly because I just want to connect with the Taiwanese Americans, people who sort of share my cultural background, My parents cultural background, my ancestry and just to sort of explore Taiwanese American culture as well, just because I personally found it interesting

Shannon Courtney 47:50

Who else would like to go?

Wudia Kamara 47:50

Oh, yeah, for sure. Up For me, my two cultural clubs would be the Black Business Student Association. I joined that club because I've always wanted to be a part of a business club at UCLA. But I wanted something that felt a little bit more close to home. And for me, it's been a great opportunity to just like network, and connect with all the black students who share the same mindset to pursue like higher heights in business opportunities. And the second one is Bruin Polyglot Society. So I'm bilingual in English and Sierra Leone Creole and language learning has been something that I've been very much interested in since I was a kid. My parents, both of them combined speak about 10 to 12 languages, because like this is saying that the average African speaks four languages it is true, I don't speak for around four languages because I am not that average African, I hope to be. Um, so I've always like been so fascinated about the idea of language learning. And I think it's a unique way to like immerse yourself in different cultures. And with my passion for international education or international experiences. I mean, I'm part of that club. So I get to connect with other students who are learning various languages, who it's their native language. So having that non traditional classroom setting has been really helpful. So I'm currently learning French and Spanish, mostly Spanish and it's been great just having that community to speak with interact with and just learn more about different cultures.

Adnan Shabib 49:21

Okay, so for my two clubs, I would say the first one would be the International Student Ambassador Program, which is a program run by the Dashew here at UCLA. Basically, we have 20 different ambassadors all from different countries from around the world who come and basically train here to make a change for international students. And so we put that point to the side firstly, why I enjoy the ambassador program is because I get I met so many different people over the last few years I've been in it. And cultural exchange has always been something that I really really enjoyed throughout high school. Like I've made friends from all over the place from Germany to Mexico to to China to Australia, it's been like I really, really enjoyed learning about different cultures. We find friendships within our similarities and differences. I think it's so interesting to see how different people do something so differently. For the same means, I don't know, I don't have an example right off the top of my head. But it's, it's really fun. And also the international ambassador program, we do a bunch of things for international students, we advocate for them for throughout through the departmental programs. And we also create social fun social events as well. So it's always fun to meet new people from different backgrounds. The second one I would like to highlight is the Arab American Association of Engineers and Architects. So what we do is basically a kind of like a professional, and social club situation where we always where we hold a bunch of different career development workshops, resume, workshops, all of that stuff. So we get to know more about the industry tackling engineering from an international perspective where we're all trying to find jobs, without real with the sorry, with the OPT CPT situation, that fun, fun stuff. But also like getting to know people from my culture, nand you know socializing.

Shannon Courtney 51:42

Thank you for all for your first off, thank you for all your leadership experience, in UCLA and in the student organizations, and thanks for sharing it today. So I just want to look quick, know that Professor Staub has to go at six. So I was wondering, Professor Staub, if there's anything you would like to tell students who maybe are deciding if they want to participate in in international programs, whether it be in education, or the workplace, and maybe some advice for them going forward.

Shalom Staub 52:10

The advice is do it if you have the opportunity to take to do international experience, just grab it. But I also want to say international is not the only kind of intercultural experience. And there are so many opportunities for intercultural experiences informal and formal. I mean, right here on campus, just the number of clubs. That was that was just mentioned, by Justin and Wudia and Adnan. I mean, multiply that out by the number of student, you know, student leaders in clubs, the opportunity just right here on campus, and then LA is just, you know, the world is in LA. And it's definitely one of the reasons being here is to, to be in such a cosmopolitan place. So whether it's through informal opportunities to encounter people from diverse cultural backgrounds, or the opportunity to study or work in different cultural or international contexts. Grab the opportunity. I had, if I can respond to Arya's question that was in the chat. Arya asked: Does anyone feel that in trying to make the unfamiliar familiar that you had to change to at any point? Did you feel that you're being assimilated? It's such an interesting question. And I think there's a there's a bottom line to that question where if there are elements of your experience that feel unethical or or, or immoral or inappropriate or violate, you know, your own cultural rules and norms. You have agency not to go there. But the point of intercultural experiences and the point of international experiences is actually to experience other experiences. So, I don't interpret assimilate as a bad thing, when it's in the context of So, so if, so, my definition of intercultural communication competence is to be able to learn the appropriate rules and norms and patterns of behavior. And yes, adjust yourself to those norms and patterns of behavior so that you can make connections with people It doesn't mean that you give yourself up or deny who you are in any fundamental way. But it does mean that you add to your your degrees of competence to be able to move in different ways in different circles and different cultures. So, so I love the question, because it's a really a profound question. And it speaks to a really core issue of who are we in essence, what is our identity? But but but I don't actually accept the premise, if the premise is that that, that we that we shouldn't know how to adapt, or we shouldn't know how to modify our behavior. I mean, Justin's example of working in an Asian setting versus working in an American setting is a very powerful example. And in a globalized world, where so many of you as you know, in your life experience, you're going to be working and encountering people from so many more places around the world. And then certainly, you know, it was a, in my experience as a 20 year old, you know, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, so. So the world is different. And so we want to have that ability to fluidly move in and out and across different environments, you know, that Adnan can move and feel comfortable now here in LA and at UCLA, but obviously, also feel comfortable when he goes back home. It doesn't mean that when when when a person does that, that they've given something up, it means from my perspective, that they've gained something. So. So maybe there isn't enough time. But let's question what what is the issue here about? Assimilation? Yes, bad if it if the if there's an idea that you're forced to give up something, yes, that that's bad. But when it's your own agency to figure out how to navigate a complex world, I'd argue that's good. With that, actually, everybody, I have to rush to class. So thank you for giving me this opportunity. Thank you, panelists. Thank you, Shannon. And I'm glad to be with everybody in the audience. Thank you so much. Good luck, with class.

Shannon Courtney 57:28

Thank you so much. Good luck, with class. Alright, so thank you so much, Professor Staub for coming to the panel. Do any of the student panelists want to comment on what Professor Staub was saying? Or should we move into questions? Yolanda's raising her hand. Yolanda you can unmute if you would like to speak out loud

Yolanda 57:58

Thank you. I was just wondering if there is any international opportunities for the sociology major on the international experience? Can you hear me?

Shannon Courtney 58:14

Yes, we can hear you. I don't believe anyone on the panel is a sociology major. But throughout International Education Week, there's various international programs being available, for example, study abroad, which for example, Wudia and I participated in through the Global internship program. They allow different majors to participate in different programs abroad. So what I think that's a really cool thing about UCLA, UCLA, which we were kind of talking about in regards to ethnocentrism is that what is that UCLA allows people from different backgrounds, institutions and majors and minors to participate in different programs. So yes, it is available for Sociology. So Arya in the chat, asked the panelists, what did you learn about yourself and your identity during your experience in the US or abroad? We'll give the panel a second and then anyone can start. Go ahead. Go ahead Wudia.

Wudia Kamara 59:28

Okay, ah, have to think about that one. But I would say one thing that I learned about I'm trying to look up the question again, about myself and identity during my experience in the US or abroad, it would be code switching. So code switching not only for like, professional, non professional settings, but so the way I speak or interact with my peers in school at UCLA is quite different from the way I interact with my family. My family who most of them are Sierra Leonean and Guinean and, and just like the way I interact with them, because there's like a lot of like cultural dynamics that I know they are not very like, familiar with when you compare it to like the typical like American, teen life or whatnot. So it's always like, I guess for me, it's very, like funny to see how like I can be, I can be talking like very nice, or just like saying things like very quite differently. And then when I pick up the phone, it's like, talk to my mom or my dad, everything just changed my tone changes, like the way I speak all, like change everything. And then my roommate, sometimes we're like, Is that the same person? I'm like, yes, but you have to understand, like, there's just like, different ways of like communicating with people. And I, for me, I didn't ever view that as like a way of like, we've been at the whole life, but it's just as Professor Staub was saying, like, you gain some, you lose some. And it's just like, nice to, you have to understand that you cannot. Sometimes you have like assimilate to different settings, and the cultural dynamics that they require, and not feel that you are, you have to be the same person, in every situation or setting, like where you find yourself.

Shannon Courtney 1:01:19

Thank you for that response. Justin, you had your hand up? Do you have anything to add?

Justin Chen 1:01:24

Yeah, I was gonna say my experience working in Taiwan and East Asia in general definitely made me sort of more acute, more aware of the sort of intertwining nature between my cultural upbringing and my system of beliefs, be it political be it just like moral. So I just became a lot more aware of those connections there. Because I used to just make a lot of presuppositions. Like, I just presume that sometimes the people that I'm talking to, we're operating on the same ideological point, the same moral point, but that's not necessarily true. I just became more mindful of that, through my experiences overseas.

Adnan Shabib 1:02:15

Thank you for the really good question. But I want to like really reiterate, what Wudia said, I really, really see myself doing that to code switching and all that. I, I don't, like I don't, it's not a not a bad thing. It's just interesting to see how things have changed over the like, how I've evolved as a person, the last two years, I've been at UCLA. Like before, I would say, like I was very much different. Like I would call myself, you know, like some some Jordanian, Middle Eastern person. But now I feel like I don't know how to explain it. But like, I've shifted my identity, not identity. Like, I've become kind of assimilated more into US culture, which is, again, what Mr. Staub, Professor Staub said it's not a bad thing is just, it's just different and unique. Like I found, like my own. I've taken what I like about both cultures and stuff, and like created my own identity, I guess, in a way.

Shannon Courtney 1:03:25

Thank you for those responses. There was a question in the chat from Simon. Do you want - I can read that or does anyone else have any questions?

Arya Goyal 1:03:38

So I'm actually sorry, I had a question for all the panelists. So I'm an international student as well. I'm in India, I mean, I'm from India. And I'm studying in the US, I face a lot of like, culture shock in many different ways. And I think the most important one is like when I'm talking to Americans, my accent sort of changes because it's not because I wanted to, it's just, it just happens because they sometimes literally, it's hard to communicate otherwise, like simply at Starbucks, like I sometimes have to change, just make a short, like version of my name, my name is very short. But like, sometimes I feel like I pronounced it wrong, or they're hearing it wrong. So I was wondering if these are things that you have experienced? And if you've experienced this, like, like my question before, do you feel like you've changed yourself in order to you know, like, make other people understand you better and something something's like simple things, like, I understand kilometers, right? I understand Kgs instead of like, pounds and stuff, just small things like this, like, do you experience them as well? And how do you deal with it?

Wudia Kamara 1:04:42

I would say the name thing for sure. Like, I've had like multiple versions of my name, spelled on paper. So I've just like become like, used to the fact that whenever I say when people ask like, well, what's your name? What's the name for the order? I just like say it and then I start spelling it like right off the bat because I'm just like, Yeah, I'm not about to like have that conversation today. But um, so I did mention earlier about how like, I went to most of my school in Sierra Leone, and which is mostly like British curated. So my first essay that I wrote in my English class in high school in Fontana, California here, I had like a lot of red marks, my teacher marked, like a lot of red marks on it. And then I was like, this is a really good paper, like, why What the hell and then I looked at it, and then all of them were spelling corrections. So they're all like for American words. So like, color, o versus ou in them. So all the things she marked like that I suppose wrongly, were all because there were spelled like, according to like, British Standards and stuff. So with time, I had to like, learn how to, like, come from that, even up till now I still use like a lot of like British spellings and stuff on things that I write. But I have to like, make the conscious effort like going through them, and making sure like I'm organizing well, because I do know, I don't, I don't look like everyone else can speak to this. But it's like, American educational systems sometimes, like have this tendency of being like, my way is the right way. So having all the people like have put it in there. It's just like, oh, well, you're in America. So you have to like, write it this way, or make it sound this way.

Justin Chen 1:06:28

Yeah, I would say for me, there wasn't really an instance where I've had to change anything about what I do or say, to get people to understand me. I suppose that's because, you know, I'm from a country where English is a native language. So there wasn't that much of an adjustment. But I can definitely relate to what you're talking about. Because I do know people around me who are Brazilian, who are Chinese to have experience, what you went through, where people have had trouble relating to what, what they're saying, be in a cultural context or a linguistic context, so I can definitely relate.

Adnan Shabib 1:07:17

Yeah, to add on to what Justin and Wudia said, like, it's it always depends on the situation. I'm in like five minutes on the line at Starbucks. My name is not Adnan. My name is Adam. Just to make the whole process go faster. It's even though my name is not too complicated. But also, it's like, I find myself back in situations where Oh, yeah, it's 80 degrees Fahrenheit, That's 80 degrees outside and like, that really means nothing to me. Pounds, Yeah, I weigh, Okay, now I know I weighed 150 pounds, but like, you told me how much you weigh. I'm not gonna know unless I convert it to kilograms. It's, it's little things, but it's also not too big of a deal anymore. I think to me, like it's just become a norm of life now. Okay. Change conversions. Change my name to Adam. It's. Yeah.

Shannon Courtney 1:08:14

So interesting discussion, like how people relate in that regard. Thanks for everyone for sharing their personal experiences. Up in the chat Simon asked a question. So I just brought it back down. So he asked, how did your friends and family abroad react to when you told them that you were becoming a UCLA student? And what what is the reputation of education here? That maybe like your friends and family abroad have of the United States? Okay, Justin, go ahead.

Justin Chen 1:08:44

Yeah, so when my friends and family first got news that I was gonna attend UCLA, a lot of them already know of UCLA, because UCLA is an internationally reputable institution. It's UCLA has graduated many accomplished alumni across the globe. So they were pretty, I'd say, impressed and confident that I was going to receive a quality education here. And the reputation of an American education, I suppose part of its like romanticized like, I wouldn't say, an American education, that different from higher education in some other countries, like say, for instance, you know, higher education in the UK or higher education in Canada, or even in some, some European countries. But I would say, since America had and has a lot of cultural through soft power. A lot of people sort of get a little too attach to the romantic, romanticized version of American education, but most of my friends and family were confident that that I'm going to receive a quality Education here.

Adnan Shabib 1:10:00

So for me, particularly I, when I told my family, I was going to go attend UCLA that honestly did not mean too much to my family. I think in Jordan, it's Jordan, like in the Middle East in general, the fact that you're getting an education in the United States is the biggest, the biggest thing. So it could have been any university in the United States. It's, it's not that it's not reputable in Jordan. It's just it's not widely known, in a way, I guess, from a bunch of people. It's just the fact that you go, you're, you know, you're going and the idea of like, wow, this is such a, as a much better education system than Jordan, it's, I don't think so as Justin said but like, it's, it's just the idea that you went outside, and then you come back and you go to an employer, you're like, Yes, I got an education, I'd say that puts you way above someone who graduated from a local university, I'm not particularly sure. It's just that there's this idea that American education is much higher, much higher quality than local education.

Wudia Kamara 1:11:21

Same, I 100% percent agree with that not like, for me, so I am first generation, right. So from my parents, my mom to be specific, like, she was just happy that I got into college. First of all, like, she was just really happy that I got into college. So it wasn't about that. I had to explain like, how UCLA wasn't all of that, so but she was really just excited that I got into college. And I would say, if anything, I get more of that. Like, I'm the UCLA like influence, or like the prestige about it from here in California, like when I go back home in Fontana, just like in i.e. where I used to leave, just telling people like, Oh, where do you go to school? Like, you feel like oh my god, like because Fontana's like a little bit like, closed off town a little. It's not like a city town. So it's quite, um, not very common to see people from they're going to like a lot of like high rated public universities outside of the town. Well outside of like the the county specifically. So if anything, I get it more from people around here or anything I go, I go to UCLA, like, Oh, nice. How did you get in or stuff like that? And just like, start asking questions. But for my parents and people back home, it's just like, very excited that I go to college in the US, for the most part, I would say.

Shannon Courtney 1:12:40

Thank you for all those responses. Elizabeth left a question that I want to kind of expand on about would a non American but non local education be impressive as well. I want to ask your guys's opinion, from an international perspective. Do you believe that international education or going abroad again to get an education for I would say like a longer period of time than a semester, for example, is more emphasized in international communities compared to the US where in the US like Americans go for one semester they live, Oh, I gotta see this one culture, like go visit museums and stuff. Whereas in other countries, the emphasis is on if you get an international education, you're more likely to be have higher job prospects. Any comments on that?

Adnan Shabib 1:13:27

I can go first for this one. So I think for I think it's more important, or at least where I'm from that where you graduate. Like, where does your degree come from? Like, if it comes from, let's say, you go to a Jordanian, university, but you ended up having a semester in Germany semester in Spain a semester in the US, it's not going to matter too much. Like, employee employment wise. But if you want to graduate from a different university from outside of during, it's going to be like, Wow. As for the question Elizabeth had in the chat, it's as long as the country that you're going to has like, like some sorts of like, economic like, is better off economically in a way that you're like in most of Europe and North America. If you go anywhere there and say, oh, yeah, I got a degree in something that's applicable into Indian society. Or like more. Like better me, like not better majors but like more majors that people strive to go towards, like doctor, engineer, lawyer pulled up all that stuff, then it's very impressive. Like you went out of your way you went, understood, different company went to a different culture, understood and that came back to, you know, share and all that with everyone else in the country, or in the job.

Justin Chen 1:14:52

Yeah, I would say in Oceania, especially in Australia, New Zealand. There isn't a particular emphasis on going overseas to receive higher education just because both countries we have reputable universities, like internationally speaking, in fact, we are a pretty common destination for people seeking an overseas education. So I'd say for those who particularly want to seek an education in the US plan on working and just permanently relocating in the US, such as myself. So I would say, it is common though, among Australian and New Zealand college students to do a semester abroad, but I would say the emphasis of getting an overseas higher education is in there.

Wudia Kamara 1:15:47

Um, for me, I think it's a little bit tricky. But um, I would say, getting a non American but not local education can be as impressive depending on where your final destination is, your perspective final destination. So for example, if you think you want to work in America for long term and stuff like that, even if you do obtain some sort of like education from other places around the world, it would be very beneficial to you to have some sort of like American like educational background, or something that's like, a bit more European, or that has at least the same language basis, because I think language can be like a huge barrier for people. But having a multifaceted like kind of like portfolio or while going to like jobs or whatnot can be very beneficial as well. So I think in especially in this new age of like, diversity within like Western culture within like professionalism, I think it's really nice to have like, a diverse range of like, education, that's not only American, but at the same time, it's all dependent on like, Where you think you're going to go with it.

Shannon Courtney 1:16:57

Very interesting perspective, coming from the fact that, as I've mentioned, like, my summer, quote, unquote, abroad because of the pandemic was virtual and so very interesting actually getting the perspective of people who have actually come to the US or gone abroad as well, in person. So the concluding I want to do a concluding question or remark to the panel just in regards to what would you tell other UCLA students who maybe are deciding whether they should study abroad or maybe just work abroad in for international companies, who me maybe are worried about facing like different cultural differences and struggles and maybe not being comfortable with facing like, the unknown?

Justin Chen 1:17:45

What I would say is just keep an open mind, if an opportunity to work overseas, presents itself and it also sort of fits your needs, or if everything lines up, I'd say go for it. But I would say at the same time, don't fear the unknown. Humans are highly adaptable. So so long as you're not forced to change, so long as you're not really compelled to change. Just like professor Staub said earlier. I'd say, yeah, any form of adaptation isn't necessarily bad, I'd say, you know, we just adapt to our environments or surroundings. So I say keep an open mind and don't fear the unknown.

Wudia Kamara 1:18:38

I would say you miss 100% of the shots you don't take right. So why not go for it? I guess like, if it's something you're truly passionate about, I would suggest going to it but one thing that I would like, I kind of like us as a precaution to people who kind of like are very fascinated about like, the idea of like, study internationally or getting like immersing like different cultures is like, don't not trying to, like, have that voluntourism mindset because that's something that we'd see nowadays, especially coming from an American perspective, and go into like different cultures thinking that you are the standard or you're some kind of like saver type of mentality. I think if you kind of like negate that coming from an American perspective, you should be able to like immerse yourself in like different cultures. And I think having international intercultural experience, it's something that can be really helpful, no matter like, where you want to work in life, or whatever you want to do. It's really enriching personally, and professionally. So I think right now, I mean, at UCLA, you have all these opportunities, and most of them can be paid for actually if you're applying to the right programs that can be subsidised or whatnot, so why not do it? I think after graduating from UCLA there isn't like so much time to study abroad or have like all these opportunities because you're just like focused on like, studying life straight or what other like all the Our responsibilities. So I think if you're having it right now, why not take the trip, you know, it can be fun, it can be academic, it can be professional can be all of it together. So why not?

Adnan Shabib 1:20:13

To add upon what's already been said, as long as there's, I think there's, as long as there's no like major obstacle, there's no reason not to do it. It's, at best, you're going to have an amazing experience. And you'll think you'll find that you really love the culture, you love the people yo meet to have an amazing time. At worst, you're gonna, it might not be the best of time, but you get the experience on the development. If you do it next time, then you'll know what to do, or you change what you'd want to do. And I don't think there's really any drawback to it, to be honest.

Shannon Courtney 1:20:53

So that wraps up our International Education Week panel for the Burkle Center Student Voices: Around the World in 90 Minutes. I really want to thank all the student panelists, and also Professor Staub, who participated in the panel had really great input. Really fascinating from a perspective like of an American here, especially for the Center for International Relations. It's really poignant right now in this tense climate of international exchange. And so what I want to say just for the audience, is that this recording is going to be available on YouTube. And so if you want to get a copy of this, feel free to go on YouTube when it's published. And you can see like all the great feedback and responses again, and if you're ever interested in participating in different study abroad opportunities and international opportunities in general at UCLA, the Dashew Center, International Student Representative Office has really great opportunities just for international students, but also domestic students just get involved within the different multicultural communities at UCLA. And you can always reach out to study abroad office or any other office at UCLA. Does anyone else want to leave any lasting remarks or any resources they want to pitch to the audience? Well, thank you so much panel. We really appreciate you guys coming today and tonight for International Education Week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai